Joel: Danielle.

Danielle: Hi.

Joel: How are you doing?

Danielle: I'm good. How are you?

Joel: Good. Thanks for joining me.

Danielle: That's my pleasure.

Joel: So you've heard a couple of these. You kind of know how it goes. Start, if you would, by describing your background professional, artistic, before you joined fine furniture

Danielle: I have done most every job, I think when I was working, the last place I was working was like, a local lumberyard/mill/shop place in Nanaimo. And I believe that that was my 47th job. A lot of service industry. I was a flight attendant for nine years. Pubs, clubs, restaurants, cafes, lifeguard, gyms.

Joel: Was the saw mill your first woodworking job?

Danielle: Yeah, it was.

Joel: How and why did you get into that?

Danielle: Well, so COVID happened, and when COVID happened, I was a flight attendant. And then we were renovating our house and I wanted to make cool things for my house, but wood got really expensive and I didn't have a job. So I put a thingy out on Facebook marketplace being like, yo, if anyone's doing renovation has extra 2x4s, let a girl know and I'll come grab them from you, even if they're just off cuts. I'm just wanting to learn. So was trying to be self-taught, and then when a buddy of mine got back to me and he's like, “I work at this crazy lumber yard that's got so much shit kicking around, if you want to come on by and just pick at our at our offcuts.” And so at that time, I got really into like, high figured western maple because there was just offcuts of this beautiful western maple everywhere.

Joel: But you clearly have some artistic background before this.

Danielle: Yeah, I'm just crafty. My mom is super crafty. I'm super crafty. And we both have, like, a really hard time staying still. You're going to have to edit out my foot tapping. sorry guys.

Joel: Nah it's color commentary. What kind of crafts does your mom do?

Danielle: My mom is like a Leslie. Sewing and fiber art. She's got a big giant loom in the house. She weaves. She actually made me a sheet of like, I have a beautiful herring bone pattern for my chair, but it was just too small. I can't really stick it in, so I might make a little pillow out of it or something for the chair, but it's just like 19x19, so it won't do much for my giant throne of a chair.

Joel: Did she teach you how to do these crafts?

Danielle: I didn't really want to learn. Sewing, knitting. Knitting, you just sit still and move your fingers. I can’t imagine that. It is wonderful, but it is not for me.

Joel: What about your dad?

Danielle: Dad's not super crafty or anything. He does like to brag about how crafty Mum and I are, though. But he's a watcher.

Joel: Any siblings?

Danielle: My big brother. Also not very crafty. No big pilot. Cut and dry human.

Joel: Got it.

Danielle: Yeah.

Joel: So why did you enroll in fine furniture? You could have done a lot of things after COVID, after being a flight attendant, why find furniture?

Danielle: Well, that shop that I was working at, the lumberyard, the gentleman who owned it just kind of left us there. And then the other guy who called me there, eventually when I needed the wood, he left too. So it was just me there. And so people would come in and they'd be like, “I want a mantle, I want a table.” And I was just, like, way over my head. I would say yes, and I would try really hard to learn and do a good job, but I'm like-

Joel: They wanted you to make them these?

Danielle: Yeah. We did kind of just everything at this place. And so there was a few situations like I made a ten foot western maple table, just the top, and I got it nice and good and didn't really do any leg situations because the gentleman had it, but I had to put the bow ties in and get the wood stable and put the c channels in the bottom and whatever have you. So the slab would become stable. I didn't know anything, like I'd been a woodworker-

Joel: How'd you know how to do all that?

Danielle: YouTube and, like, talking to the old boys who come into the shop and whatever have you, like, just struggling, really. This program, I was like, I have an opportunity to learn way more and I really enjoy it and I want to learn.

Joel: How did the old boys react to the young woman at the shop?

Danielle: Most were adorable. One guy came in and he was just like, I don't know, 185 years old. He's ancient and he's like 5’4. He just comes wandering through the front doors and like, “Hey, man, can I help you?” And he's like, “Nope. I was just told to come and get a look at you.” Okay. Then he just turned around and left, like two minutes later after watching me saw something. Okay. But yeah, the old boys are pretty great. One of my favorite, I mill with him still often. He's like 76 and he's wonderful.

Joel: Do you find it at all challenging to be a woman in this world of trade and woodworking and traditional male-dominated pursuits?

Danielle: I don't think I have enough experience in it to know. There was a few situations. Like, I've had a gentleman take a saw out of my hand and tell me I shouldn't be using it. It's a 16 inch skill saw, too. The thing is enormous. And he stopped me from cutting a slab. It came and interfered with the cut to remove it from me, which was way more dangerous than a woman cutting a slab. But that's like besides a few comments and like, that guy, that's really it. So I don't find it too challenging to be a woman, but I also am quite seasoned to men. I don't struggle with them.

Joel: Why did you choose wood to focus your studies on as opposed to metalworking or some other medium?

Danielle: It smells so nice. Yeah.

Joel: What do you mean it smells nice? What do you mean by nice?

Danielle: It just smells earthy and wonderful and warm. My first post-secondary education was in forestry and ecosystem technology, so I know a bit about wood. And my dad's best friend ran a sawmill for years. Like, wood is just a part of, part of my life, I think. And it just smells nice. And it feels nice. It's warm, it's inviting. There's never anything cold about it. All of our western woods are nice and light and not so much the tropicals, but our western woods are just really inviting, I find.

Joel: What's your favorite wood?

Danielle: I love cedar.

Joel: Why?

Danielle: It's just so light, and it smells amazing. And it's great to mill, and it does everything. And it's waterproof. We use it for everything.

Joel: What do you think about the pipe trades?

Danielle: I think they're so necessary. And I don't know what you guys have on this whole thing.

Joel: Hey I just report the news, I don't make it.

Danielle: Totally fair. Totally fair. Pipe Trades are well, and also, let me tell you, so we went to that awards ceremony a couple of weeks ago or whatever.

Joel: Congratulations, by the way. I'm going to stop you, actually. So tell us why you were at the award ceremony.

Danielle: Because I won a couple awards.

Joel: What awards did you win?

Danielle: I won the Columbia Industrials Finishing Award for my finishing sample, a giant project that I did and took on and then also all the other weird little finishing things I've done. The cherry blossom cabinet and all the little things that caught Sandra's eye, I think helped with that. And the other one was the Victoria Truth Center Award, and it was for women in trades. So that was a Camosun-wide award. And it was for women in trades who demonstrated excellent teamwork and abilities to do things and camaraderie and good disposition and just overall being a good human and good woman in trades.

Joel: How did it feel to get those awards?

Danielle: Super. Really wonderful.

Joel: Have you ever gotten awards before?

Danielle: Yeah.

Joel: So you're used to it?

Danielle: Yeah. Not used to it by any stretch. When I first moved to Vancouver and I worked at this coffee shop in Chemainus, and I won, like, best barista? No best employee in Chemainus. And it was like a big Chemainus Legion townwide event at the Chemainus Theater, and it's got a plaque and I don't know, man.

Joel: So you are on your way to the awards ceremony I interrupted you.

Danielle: Yeah. And while I was at the awards ceremony, pipe trades was the first group of people to present their awards, and it's huge. Pipe trades is so big. There's so much that is involved in that field, and the majority of the winners of all of the pipe trades awards were women. So, I mean, kudos to that. I can't argue with that.

Joel: Yeah, that's great.

Danielle: If women are doing a good job at pipe trades, then I think they're super necessary.

Joel: There's so many times during this interview that I'm having to restrain myself from our favorite joke, our favorite Michael Scott joke.

Danielle: That's what she said.

Joel: It’s just very difficult. What kind of friendships have you made in this program over the last nine months?

Danielle: I wish bigger ones, but that's okay. I don't.

Joel: What do you mean bigger ones?

Danielee: Like, everyone is wonderful, and I think we all have a really common bond of what we're doing. I think everybody here wants to really do well in this and wants to really… is really into this. I guess they don't really want to do anything with it, but they're all super into it. So we share this really common bond, and we've only ever had beers once, and it was like a Christmas party, which, I've never gone nine months knowing anybody and not having a beer with most of them. It's crazy to me that way.

Joel: Why do you think that is? That we socialize so little outside of class?

Danielle: Well, I don't live here besides the weekends. I don't know if any of you guys hang out, but the weekends I'm gone back home up to Ladysmith, so I don't stay. But I don't know. Everyone's got their own life. Everyone's got their own thing going on. So we just meet at school, and we spend all day together here, and then we split and go our separate ways.

Joel: We do spend a lot of time together.

Danielle: We do.

Joel: What is your best experience been in the class so far, and it can be by experience, a lecture, a homework assignment, a project, a day, whatever you want it to be.

Danielle: I had a day in the morning, and I had stressed myself out a lot over the weekend about what I'm going to do with my life and whatever have you. And I came in that morning, and Sandra, Sandra just said something to me that made everything better in a really quick hurry.

Joel: What did she say?

Danielle: Which basically was just like, you can do anything. But she didn't look at me and see that I was struggling or anything. She just came up and we had a conversation. It was really quick, but it turned into, like, she couldn't have said a better thing at a better time, because I don't even know if I would have lasted the whole day at school that day. I was kind of just feeling like I was bad at everything. Kind of one of those days where I couldn't pick up something without it crumbling in my hands. Yeah. She came in and she said just the right thing at just the right time, and I had a really great day because of that. And I cried a bit, and I was super grateful and all the things.

Joel: She seems to be, Sandra seems to be especially good at that.

Danielle: Oh, she's like an empath monster. I don't know, man. She's got a gift.

Joel: What is her gift?

Danielle: Empath, empathy. Yeah. She just kind of sees people, I think. She knows how to talk to each of us differently, which is wonderful. Yeah.

Joel: What has been your most frustrating or dispiriting experience in class?

Danielle: Jigs and joinery. I'm Dyslexic. I can't see it. Like, Peter comes up, and he'll create this amazing thing full of dovetails and stuff, and I can't cut a left to right miter. I have to put my arms up or draw it or actually navigate it. So when people are cutting these doing these crazy, complicated compound things, that's not for me.

Joel: They're able to visualize them in their heads.

Danielle: Yeah.

Joel: I can't do that either.

Danielle: No. Everything just looks like it looks backwards.

Joel: And I have to write it out five or six times, check it eight or nine times.

Danielle: I have colored pencils because I find that if I draw colored paths for myself, I do a bit better. But like dovetails, I think I cut 75 dovetails. And then Sandra came over, and she was like, “These are all backwards.” And I'm like I know. I'm dyslexic I can't!

Joel: How did your 76 dovetail go?

Danielle: Oh, you know what? I did a few good ones.

Joel: What part of the curriculum, lesson, skill, has affected you the most?

Danielle: Joinery. It's been super humbling. I watched enough videos to know that what these people do is impressive, but I didn't know that I couldn't do it. I didn't know that I would struggle so much to cut wood. So it's been super humbling.

Joel: You don't look like you struggle.

Danielle: Well, not, like, I can cut a straight line, but to cut the complex things is really difficult on my brain. So it was humbling, and it's nice to know that I can do it. I'll probably avoid it, but I can do it if I need to.

Joel: Have you adopted any strategies or shortcuts to make the difficult parts of this class color on you?

Danielle: Colors is good, color.

Joel: That’s really smart.

Danielle: Yeah. Big, bold lines and colors. I used to not do big lines because I didn't want to sand the big lines off, but then I'm sanding anyway, so I figured I would just do the big lines.

Joel: Yeah. It's made a difference.

Danielle: Yeah, it has.

Joel: Has the class changed you at all?

Danielle: No, I don't think so bud, no, I feel like I know way less than when I started.

Joel: You know less?

Danielle: I feel like I know way less than when I started, which I suppose is a good thing.

Joel: Is that just because you’ve been exposed to so much more?

Danielle: Yeah, if anything, I'm less confident in my skills and know way less than I did when I came in here thinking that I was going to do just fine.

Joel: Why is that? I mean, you've won several awards. Your chair is looking good. Why do you feel like you have fewer skills

Danielle: Because there's just so many more.

Joel: The universe has expanded?

Danielle: Yeah. And I really like to be good at things. I don't like to be bad at things.

Joel: I hear that.

Danielle: Yeah.

Joel: How do you cope with being not as good at something as you'd like to be? Because I don't cope very well.

Danielle: Oh, no. I like, cry and struggle and do it again and again and again. Because I figure with the way that I learn, like, with the tactile way and, you're an academic I'm not an academic. I have to really drill something in to get it done. So I'll do it over and over and over again to the point of exhaustion when you're not doing a good job anyways. But I'll try really hard and I'll cry, and I'll be frustrated.

Joel: And then what happens after all of that?

Danielle: I'll get it if I want to. Yeah. I'll figure it out.

Joel: Does that make it easier the next time, knowing that you'll eventually get it?

Danielle: Absolutely. Yeah.

Joel: What do form and function mean to you? And has the class changed how you interpret or feel about those concepts?

Danielle: Class has changed how I interpret and feel about those concepts. Form and function. I don't know why aesthetically pleasing isn't a function of something, but that's okay. That's just me. The function assignment, the bookends designing two bookends, one being form, one being function. Function being it just does the job. Form being it does the job and it looks good. So my function one was apparently too looks good, but I had a really nice square, flat, heavy rock and a piece of bent wood, and I glued them together, but it still looked too nice. But I couldn't just do this with any rock and any piece of wood. Anyways, form and function is super necessary, and it's wonderful that it exists, but it's got such a big divide. And if you look at people like Le Corbusier and Eileen Gray, who designed similar things at a similar time frame, and Eileen Gray's houses were built from, like, the inside out. She built a home to be lived in. And Le Corbusier built a home, built a machine is what his were. So his homes, from the outside, they actually looked quite similar, but from the inside, an Eileen Gray home had everything well thought out, everything placed perfectly. If there was, like, a corner that needed storage, but it was quite small, she would design something that fit just in that spot that was just right for that home. The chairs were just right. Everything was great, and Le Corbusier just put blocks in places, and his homes were really cold. And the tale is when he eventually went into Eileen Gray's E 1027 home and did a bunch of lewd graffiti all over the walls and everything like that and vandalized it. And the rumor is that he was just jealous of how her homes felt over his.

Joel: He actually did vandalize her house?

Danielle: Yeah. There was a bunch of lewd, surreal art. And he used to paint naked in her home. He used to go because he knew her partner at the time. So he would go over there after Eileen had, after Eileen and the partner had broken up. Le Corbusier was friends with the partner, and he would go in and he would desecrate her home.

Joel: And he felt like just taking off all of his clothes while he did it?

Danielle: Yeah, well, you know what they did back then, the art community.

Joel: Has this program, speaking of art, changed how you feel about art? Has it enriched your understanding of it?

Danielle: I've learned a lot about furniture art, which I didn't know much about. And that's been incredible. The movements and, like, god, what was it called? The 80s art? The Bowie art, the Bowie furniture.

Joel: Art Nouveau?

Danielle: Art Nouveau. All of those things that you know, they exist. Art deco exists. You know the brutalist stuff exists. You know it all but you don't, unless you take the time to research why, you don't really know. So it was wonderful.

Joel: But it hasn't changed your tastes or how you look at a piece? Why not?

Danielle: I've always kind of been really picky about what I surround myself with. I'm not one for crap.

Joel: How do you define art?

Danielle: Art…if you feel like you need to make a statement, you create art. And that statement doesn't have to be pretty. It doesn't have to be bold, it doesn't have to be big. You just have something that needs that you need to say.

Joel: So as long as you're saying it?

Danielle: As long as you're saying it the.

Joel: Way you whatever format?

Danielle: Exactly. Because you think about art and you think about people's interpretation of it's beautiful, it's wonderful, it's gorgeous. I mean, Van Gogh did not agree. He didn't get any joy out of his art. He got very little joy out of his art.

Joel: So why do you say that?

Danielle: Because art used to frustrate him so much, but he was so drawn to create it because he had so many things to say.

Joel: You don't think he got enjoyment out of it?

Danielle: I'm sure he did, but he also got an immense amount of frustration. So much so that he cut off an ear.

Joel: So William Morris says that art is the pleasure people take in their labor. Sounds like that might not be your definition.

Danielle: In a perfect world. And I think that more people than not, I think there's less masochists in the world than there is not, but I think more people than not enjoy creating. I don't think many people put themselves through hell day in and day out to create something. I think more people than not definitely enjoy the fruit of their labors.

Joel: I think Van Gogh still enjoyed, despite how frustrating it was, I think he might have still enjoyed the process.

Danielle: At least I would imagine so. He was driven to do it. It was nothing he could even help if what I read is accurate, like he just needed to do it.

Joel: Can you be that level of an artist without being a little bit crazy?

Danielle: No.

Joel: Why not?

Danielle: Because if you need to create art, then you're going to do it. Like, think about that guy whose sketchbooks we saw in term one. Sketchbooks upon sketchbooks that's gone sketchbooks and doodles and stuff, and his parents have enormous amounts of pieces of paper kicking around with just stuff on it. And I think those people that are drawn to create art in their medium are just going to do it.

Joel: Are you drawn to create like that?

Danielle: I'm drawn to play with, yeah. Not to create, necessarily, but to play and learn.

Joel: What's the difference between creating and playing?

Danielle: I don't generally finish things to full completion and have a full vision, but I love the process of learning a lot of things.

Joel: Do you need to see something to completion in order for it to be art?

Danielle: No. In order to capitalize from it you do.

Joel: So then why are you concerned about seeing things to completion?

Danielle: So you can live a life creating art? Yeah.

Joel: Is it possible to live a life creating art? Can you be a fully realized artist in 21st century neo-liberal capitalist Canada?

Danielle: I think like 30,000 sellers on Etsy would tell you that you can. I don't know. Yeah, absolutely you can. I think it's probably easier than it's ever been.

Joel: You don't think that those people, to be successful, it's more important that they're business people than artists?

Danielle: No, I don't. I think they're artists and I think it's really easy to find business people to support artists now.

Joel: Where's the line between somebody running a business and somebody promoting their own art?

Danielle: I don't know.

Joel: Where would it be for you?

Danielle: Ask the question again.

Joel: So you have these people on Etsy and you have lots of people off Etsy who make a living selling goods to people.

Danielle: Yeah.

Joel: One might argue that the ones who are the most successful are not really successful necessarily because of the aesthetic quality of their goods, but because they're really good at marketing themselves.

Danielle: Yeah. No, I can take that both ways. There are some people who are successful because they're amazing, and there are some people who are successful because they're good at marketing themselves. There is people on YouTube that you can follow as a woodworker that I was listening to a podcast of Wood Talk a couple of weeks ago, and the one oldest gentleman in the podcast who's been a maker forever, his name is Shannon something, had said that he's been around forever and he's got a lot of credibility. So when he talks, he feels okay about what he's saying, but then there's other people that are saying things that don't have the education to say it. Like people just on YouTube doing what they do, 24 year old kids or whatever, telling people who want to learn how to properly use a table saw. And who knows if they have the proper knowledge or if they're just super handsome or wearing the right shirts or whatever it is that they're doing, but they're just marketable and good at it and easy to look at and easy to listen to.

Joel: When you see somebody like that, what sort of emotions does it trigger in you? Anger? Jealousy, resentment?

Danielle: Kudos.

Joel: Envy? Kudos?

Danielle: Yeah, kudos. With a bit of a bit of I hope nobody, I hope people are smart enough to fact check what you say. Work it, get what you need to get. If you can take advantage of the system the way it is right now, do it, but don't hurt anybody.

Joel: Are you going to take advantage of the system the way it is now?

Danielle: No, I doubt it.

Joel: Why not?

Danielle: I don't have it in me. I don't think. I would love to, but I don't have it in me. This takes so much work, first of all.

Joel: What is the first thing you would make if you had no economic or environmental constraints? You had all the time and money in the world and you didn't have to worry about cutting down an endangered tree.

Danielle: A community.

Joel: You'd make a community?

Danielle: Yes.

Joel: Tell me about that. What does that mean?

Danielle: I’d buy land. And I would build a place for people to come and live and create.

Joel: What kind of people?

Danielle: Anybody here would fit the bill. Anybody in this classroom.

Joel: Yeah, but you can't advertise on the website “my community is just for fine furniture, no alumni.” I guess you could.

Danielle: You could. But for people who need a place to go, for people who don't fit anywhere, there are so many, and you create this, god, it's going to turn to a Shaker community. You have a place where humans that don't feel like they can really work, that want to work with their hands, that want to create, they want to garden, they want to build, they want to do things with the earth and don't feel comfortable doing it in the means of a commercial setting anymore. There are a lot of people that are really talented with their hands and can build, let's say, but they're not comfortable going into a setting of a bunch of sweaty, grunty men, and running the cabinet shop and listening to them say unprofessional things about politics. There's a lot of people that just don't feel comfortable in that environment. And if you had a community that just took the best of everybody and was able to give the opportunities for everybody to be their best and it was just a safe place, and it was just a nice place.

Joel: What's the best of you? If you were in that community, what would you give?

Danielle: Time and patience.

Joel: What's the best of you? I'm sure you're a very patient person and generous, but is time the best of you? Do you have skills that are even better?

Danielle: I don't know, man.

Joel: You don't know?

Danielle: No. I can create a lot of time and a lot of space for a lot of people and create a lot of situations for people to see each other grow and glow, but I don't…

Joel: Why is it important for you to create that for other people as opposed to just creating something for yourself?

Danielle: Because I'm best when I'm around other people.

Joel: Fundamentally social?

Danielle: I'm fundamentally social and a super loner at the same time, which is amazing.

Joel: If I asked you to make something sacred to you, what would you make? And sacred can be theistic or it could be atheistic. Some people, this chair is sacred or the table is sacred, whatever it is.

Danielle: I've thought about this question so hard, and I literally have no clue what to make on something sacred to me.

Joel: Well, when you're lying in bed at night thinking about your perfect shop, what are you making in that shop?

Danielle: Bathtubs. Gorgeous, warm wooden bathtubs would be amazing.

Joel: Why bathtubs?

Danielle: They're super sensory places. Tactile. And if you do it right, they can have a scent and they can have a noise. Can you like imagining a bathtub that-

Joel: This is out of wood?

Danielle: A wooden bathtub. Yeah. But you've got a double walled wooden bathtub with rocks in between the walls, and the outside wall is higher than the inside wall. So it's a bathtub that you can just keep the water running and you would just listen to the water over the rocks. Like, it would just be amazing. So you could have some really incredible sensory experiences in a perfect bathtub.

Joel: Are you going to build yourself that bathtub?

Danielle: I've always wanted to.

Joel: Are you going to?

Danielle: I hope so. I think it's my, like, this summer's job or next summer's job, because I have outside my bedroom at my house, I have this fig tree. I'm building a deck off of my bedroom, off the sliding door, and I want a bathtub underneath my fig tree so that I have, like, two weeks a year where I can sit in a nice bath and eat figs off my tree like a freakin’ goddess. That's what I want.

Joel: That sounds wonderful.

Danielle: Doesn't it sound so nice?

Joel: Now that you mentioned I kind of want that too.

Danielle: You can come over and use my tub anytime.

Joel: Deal. Eat the figs.

Danielle: Eat the figs. Yeah. I'll get you a grape leaf or something so it's all proper.

Joel: You only have three tools to use for woodworking for the rest of your life. What are those three tools?

Danielle: Chainsaw, skill saw and some chisels.

Joel: Why those three?

Danielle: Chainsaws you can do anything with. You got to cut the tree down to get it to get the wood. And you can flatten the wood. You can cut a big, long straight line. A straight-ish line. Chainsaws are just important. Like the starting point. Skill saws, because you can do anything a table saw can do, but you can do it from anything, anywhere as long as you've got a straightish edge. And chisels because you need to dig holes to attach things. So if you didn't have a drill or you didn't have a driver or you didn't have a hand drill or anything like that, you could just do mortise and tenons with chisels. I thought that question was easy.

Joel: You nailed it. You were talking about how you're a very tactile person. What sensory memory from the shop will stay with you longest?

Danielle: How freezing the upstairs classroom is.

Joel: Why is that the one?

Danielle: Well, I'm right under the vent in the back. It's horrible. It goes right down my back. But it's nice when you go up at this time of the day.

Joel: Yeah.

Danielle: The smell.

Joel: The smell of what?

Danielle: Wood. Generally, it's just, I don't I can’t, I don't have a specific one. But especially when you come in in the morning and you're like, oh, right. This smell. The dust collection, when you turn it on, plays House of Pain. Just a little smidgen. And every time at first when the dust collection comes. I always have that song in my head.

Joel: Ready for jumping around?

Danielle: Yeah, exactly.

Joel: Me too.

Danielle: Yeah.

Joel: What do you think about Sandra and Beth?

Danielle: They're amazing.

Joel: What's amazing about them?

Danielle: I think I said earlier, I’m mostly always surrounded by men. And these two women have, like, changed the way that I feel about how we create. And two amazing role models. Empathetic, talented, not scary. I came in, it's funny because I know how to operate in a room full of men, but I don't know how to operate in a room full of women. I've just spent so much more time around men and so when I first came, I was intimidated to be around women who knew so much more than me. But it's been such a crazy, eye-opening, delightful, surprising and wonderful experience how hard I fell into this.

Joel: Why do you think before this you were so much more comfortable or at least accustomed to be being in a space dominated by men?

Danielle: Brother, dad's friends, bars, pubs, just men. I've added up all of my jobs, not any of them have revolved around a place that's women-centric.

Joel: You think it makes a big difference?

Danielle: It makes a huge difference. I don't even know if I'd put it into any words. It's just a different feeling. Women do things exactly the same way as a lot of men if you're talking about the actual physical task. But there's an air, it's just different around them.

Joel: How do you think you'll feel the last time you're in the shop?

Danielle: It's going to be super sad.

Joel: What are you going to be sad about?

Danielle: That I have to go back to reality and figure my life out, and how to keep the feeling that I have ended up with here alive in what I do in Nanaimo or wherever it is that I end up.

Joel: What's that feeling? Describe that feeling.

Danielle: A really safe place to create.

Joel: Any last thoughts? Anything I didn't ask you about? Anything you want to add in that's been on the forefront of your mind that we just haven't touched upon?

Danielle: Kudos to Mike Randall for coming in halfway through the year, pretty much, and just being like, there's a bunch of people here that are super like Sandra, and I'm just going to go in and do what she tells me and do my very best. And I think Mike did a wonderful job and I really love what he does. All his bent work is amazing.

Joel: Yeah, he did fantastic and he’s a hell of an artist.

Danielle: Yeah. Inspirational man. So, yeah, kudos to him for coming in strong and teaching like a boss for his first time teaching. I think that's the only thing I can think of to say is that it's been a wonderful situation. And Nathan and who else has popped in?

Joel: I think those are the main two.

Danielle: Those are the main two, but just humans that pop in here.

Joel: There was the woman who taught us how to cut glass.

Danielle: That was amazing. All these extra people that have just popped in things. Well, and for Sandra, for knowing that she doesn't really need to teach these things because there's people who can teach them better than she can, that's a gift in itself. So, yeah, having all these other people pop in and doing what they do and just like bosses is pretty incredible.

Joel: What do you think you're going to do with these skills when you leave?

Danielle: I dont know man.

Joel: What do you want to do?

Danielle: I want my own place.

Joel: Your own shop?

Danielle: I want my own shop and I want my own studio and I want to curate it for makers that need extra attention.

Joel: So you want to teach?

Danielle: No, I want to show their work.

Joel: That's a lovely idea.

Danielle: Yeah.

Joel: I think that's all I got. Danielle, thank you very much.

Danielle: Thanks, Joel.