Joel: You sure you're ready to go?

Eric: Yeah. Okay.

Joel: Eric, how are you?

Eric: I'm pretty good.

Joel: Yeah? How much were you dreading this?

Eric: Not much.

Joel: How excited are you to get it over with?

Eric: I'm pretty excited. I just can't wait to get out of here.

Joel: How hard is it for you to spend time in a room with me for 30 minutes?

Eric: We're going to find out. I might storm out of here.

Joel: If I do my job correctly you'll storm out.

Eric: Yeah.

Joel: So, Eric, what was your professional, educational background before you enrolled in the fine furniture program?

Eric: I went through high school. I worked at a Mediterranean deli over the summer, and then I got here.

Joel: And why did you get here? How did you get here? Because you could have gone to a lot of different places. You could have gone to another trade school. You could have kept working. Why find furniture?

Eric: To be totally honest,

Joel: Please.

Eric: It was not my total intention.

Joel: Welding was your first intention?

Eric: Welding was my first intention. This was my second choice because welding was full for the year. But I love woodworking.

Joel: Why was welding your first intention?

Eric: So I figured welding as a career would pay better. So while I love doing woodworking, I figured welding would be a more viable option, considering the living costs here on the island.

Joel: Do you, ten months later looking back, do you still wish you'd gotten your first option? Are you happy things turned out the way they did? Or a little bit of both?

Eric: Actually, I'm pretty happy I got to do this.

Joel: Why?

Eric: Because woodworking is just so fucking awesome.

Joel: What's awesome about it?

Eric: Will you take this thing, it was once living. It looks really cool. You can do whatever you want with it. It's an empty canvas. So I got my first taste of that feeling in high school. Actually, around this time last year, I finished building my first ever table, and I wanted to make a table. I knew what that table was going to look like, what I wanted to look like, and then I built it.

Joel: What did that feel like?

Eric: It was amazing. I mean, one of the most rewarding things I've ever felt. And this year I got to taste that again a couple of times with our design-it build-its, so I'm addicted to that feeling. I can't, I'm not done with wood working after this.

Joel: Where did you put that table?

Eric: It's on my bedside.

Joel: What are you going to make? You said you're not done with this, so program ends in two weeks. What are you going to do with your newfound skills then?

Eric: I'm going to make stuff at home.

Joel: What are you going to make?

Eric: I've wanted to make a small desk lamp type things, maybe with, like, shoji paper, like a little Japanese style lamp. That would be cool.

Joel: So Japanese style lamps. And I happen to know you like Japanese jazz.

Eric: Yes.

Joel: What is it about Japanese culture, the Japanese aesthetic that seems to draw you in?

Eric: I think in terms of, like, Japanese woodworking, architecture, that sort of thing. There's simplicity and it's just very beautiful simplicity. They sort of leave the natural material, so you can appreciate that. I don't know. I just like the straight lines. It's very clean. It's kind of, sort of modern looking. Like, I think some modern stuff draws inspiration from it, and I really like that.

Joel: What kind of friendships or relationships or acquaintances have you made in the program? You just got out of high school and you were, I think, the youngest person in the program.

Eric: I am.

Joel: So how has that been navigating the last ten months when some of us, myself included, are old enough to be your dad?

Eric: So it was very new, very intimidating at first.

Joel: What were you intimidated by?

Eric: No one's my age. Well, pretty much no one. I was expecting going into this there'd be a lot more people my age, and there was not.

Joel: When you realized that the first day, did you want to turn around and walk out?

Eric: No. It was just, like, throughout all my schooling career, I've been with people my own age in my peer group. So walking into the workshop and seeing a lot of people a lot older than me, it was a little bit intimidating. I remember I think I saw you and your work boots and your overalls, and I thought, “That guy knows what he's doing.”

Joel: And then you realized I have no idea what I'm doing! How long did that take you to figure out?

Eric: A couple of months, actually.

Joel: A couple of months? Wow

Eric: Maybe not a couple of months. A little bit over, like, four weeks. Yeah.

Joel: So basically when we made our first table, you realized, oh, it's all artifice.

Eric: Yeah.

Joel: When did you start getting comfortable in the program?

Eric: Probably October. So, like second month, I actually started to, I think, talk to some of the people around me. You and me go way back, I think. But I have a bit of a banter with Connor too. Sometimes we'll just be minding our business, working and walk past, or he'll walk past and be like, “Can you keep it down over here? Come on, man.” But yeah, I talked to Dan G. about, we share a common interest in video games. I often check in on my podmates’ progress on whatever we're building. We check in on each other's progress.

Joel: How do you think this experience would have been different if it had been all people of your age group? Do you think you've gotten more out of it? Less out of it? Try and imagine that and let me know what you think would have been the biggest differences.

Eric: I think I would have gotten a little bit less. It would have been the same age people I've been used to. And I think having an older class around me. It offers a little bit of wisdom and maturity. I think if everyone was the same age as me, I don't know, it might be less comfortable, even now that I look at it, because I didn't really in high school, I mean, I had my close inner friends but I never really got too close with anyone, really.

Joel: Are you more of a solitary guy?

Eric: I'd say so, yeah.

Joel: Is that where you're most comfortable?

Eric: Yeah.

Joel: Do you think that that informs part of the reason why you like woodworking?

Eric: Maybe, yeah. I don’t know.

Joel: What has been your best experience in the class so far? And by experience, I mean whatever you want it to mean. It can be a homework assignment, a project, a lecture, a particularly good day at the shop, whatever you want.

Eric: I think my best experience was finishing our bookends, the form bookends. So I spent weeks studying a topic.

Joel: What topic?

Eric: It was Japanese architecture. So that was going to be the base for my design on the bookend. That was actually the project I was dreading the most.

Joel: Why?

Eric: I had to write, and I do not like writing, but I got through it, and I researched my topic. I designed it, I drafted it, I built it, I finished it, and then I was able to look at it sitting on the table with everyone else's bookends. And, I mean, that was the first thing I'd ever been fully in charge of every single step of its creation. The table I made in high school, I didn't come up with the design. I found the design, but I did all the building. But this bookend, the whole process was me. And I could hold it, I could see it, and it was sitting there. I was just I got a rush. It was really rewarding.

Joel: You must be feeling that more and more these days with your chair, since that is entirely your design and build.

Eric: Yeah, it's a really good feeling. I'm only getting started, so I'm really excited to take my skills and see what I can make at home.

Joel: What has been your most frustrating or dispiriting experience in the class? And again, experience is whatever you want it to be.

Eric: There's a couple, I'd have to say.

Joel: That day you were forced to be in the car with me, driving to IDS West?

Eric: No, that was great. IDS West was great. I'd say either the production stool, there was the angles on it, and you had to drill in all the right spots. And I think we went through so many stool legs trying to get it right, because the angles just screwed with our brains. And I think even now, when I glued mine together I put the rails, or not the rails the spindles, opposite of where they're supposed to be. So there's two spindles that are lower than two others that are higher, and I switched them up so that was kind of annoying.

Joel: What part of the curriculum affected you the most? 20-30 years from now, someone says, “Tell me a memory of the fine furniture program,” and what's going to come to mind?

Eric: Yeah, I think the latter half of the first term, again, with the research project. I think that's around that time with the shop projects we had going and the research project.

Joel: When you were studying Japanese architecture?

Eric: Yeah, I think that's one of the busiest times of my life. I was staying late at the shop to get my Shaker table out of the way because my progress on that was pretty slow going. And then I went home and I went straight to researching more for my research project. And although I'm glad I'm out of that now, it was a pretty interesting experience. I don't know, I was so in the zone, so in tune with school, and everything was going on. I was kind of just flooded with it. It was kind of cool.

Joel: What did your parents think when they saw you go from high school where, I don't know, maybe you loved high school, but if you were anything like me, you just kind of got through it as best you could. Going through high school and then seeing you in that zone, just working your ass off, just fully focused and dedicated. Did they say anything? Did your friends notice a difference at all?

Eric: Yeah, my mom, I think she was pretty proud of me hunkering down and getting to the work. I think through a lot of high school, I was just getting through it with the sake of getting through it. I didn't care that much, a lot about a lot of my subjects, and I definitely never put as much work in in high school as I did that first term with everything we were doing. The drafting assignments, the cutting list assignments, the research projects.

Joel: SketchUp.

Eric: Yeah, SketchUp, all that.

Joel: What do form and function mean to you now? After going through our design-it built-its, spending so much time thinking about those concepts.

Eric: So I think in terms of furniture making, for me, function should come first.

Joel: Why?

Eric: Well, when you're making a furniture piece, I don't think you should make furniture just to look good, like a sculpture. I think you could make prettier looking sculptures. I think sculptures are all form. I think furniture should always have a function component. I think you should be able to sit in a chair or store things in a cabinet. And once you have a good amount of form, or sorry, function Did I just switch them up?

Joel: I don't think so.

Eric: Okay. Yeah, once you have enough function-

Joel: We’ll know when I do the audio.

Eric: Yeah. Then you incorporate the form. I think a perfect design has a good amount of both. In terms of furniture, form to me, is still important. I don't want my furniture to look like shit. But furniture is supposed to work. It's supposed to function.

Joel: Has this program changed how you feel about trade? How you feel about art? How you feel about your future?

Eric: Definitely.

Joel: How so?

Eric: I think before, I had no idea just how long and how much dedication and effort goes into making things out of wood. And building all these things throughout the year has definitely given me perspective on, I mean, not just how long furniture making, woodworking takes. But I mean, it I think it gave me a bit of an idea how long other stuff takes. Sorry, what was the question again?

Joel: How else has it changed your perspective on trade, on art, on your future?

Eric: Trade, art. Okay. Yeah, I think I can pull a little bit more from art. I think this has given me a bit more of an appreciation for it. Before, I would just look at something and I don't know, I couldn't really see much in it. I think now when I look at art or furniture, especially furniture, of course, it's a little bit more interesting to me because I think about how this person probably made this piece of art, what they put into it. And with furniture, whenever I'm walking past any piece of furniture, I'll glance an eye at it. Yeah, it's definitely changed.

Joel: How do you define art?

Eric: Wow, that's a hard one.

Joel: No right answers, no wrong answers.

Eric: I don't feel like I'm qualified.

Joel: Why don't you feel like you're qualified?

Eric: It's a pretty big question. I don't know. I guess in my humble 18 year old opinion, I'd say that art is, I guess it's any form of human expression, period.

Joel: Why are you hesitant to offer a definition because you're 18?

Eric: I don't know. I'm kind of new to the whole designing artsy stuff. I mean, this was kind of my first year even delving into any of these topics, really, like aesthetics and design and furniture and art and all that.

Joel: William Morris defines art as the pleasure that people take in their work and their labor. What do you think of that definition? And you can totally disagree. Again, you don't have to placate me.

Eric: Can you say it again?

Joel: He thinks that art is the pleasure you take in your labor. So when you made that table in high school, that was art because you took so much pleasure in the process of creation.

Eric: Yeah, I think that makes sense.

Joel: Why?

Eric: Well, the pleasure that you take in your labor. I mean, anything can pretty much be art if that's, damn, I don't know.

Joel: Want to think on it and get back to me?

Eric: Maybe.

Joel: Are arts and trades influenced by outside forces like politics and economics?

Eric: Probably everything is, pretty much. Politics? Maybe. I mean, people make political art. There's probably at some point in history somewhere, types of art were probably banned by the ruling political party.

Joel: I'm sure.

Eric: Money, any economy, sell art for money, I guess, most of the time.

Joel: Do you think you'll ever try and express your own political views through art that you make?

Eric: Probably not.

Joel: Why not?

Eric: I'm not much into putting statements into my work.

Joel: Isn’t all of your work a statement?

Eric: How so?

Joel: Your chair. I look at your chair, and to me that is a very profound statement. It's built on a grand scale. It's built with finesse. It's built with pride. It's built for reclining. And to me, there's a whole lot of statements when I look at your chair that you're making. They might not be statements on what party to vote for, but you're certainly, to me, making lots of statements when you build that chair.

Eric: I never thought about it like that.

Joel: Or your design-it build-it. To me, and maybe I'm wrong, because it's your creation, but you're making a statement about your appreciation of Japanese architecture.

Eric: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

Joel: So you think you're going to make statements with your art in the future?

Eric: I mean, if I already have, then I guess so, yeah.

Joel: Do you think a person can be a fully realized artist in this current reality? And by that I mean you're going to have to pay rent, you're going to have to put gas in your car. You're going to be worrying about relationships and friendships, and maybe you'll have kids, and maybe you'll get married. There's all sorts of different things we have to think about and do that sometimes distract from and detract from our ability to make art. Do you think it's possible to be a fully realized artist, given all the other crap you got to deal with, being a human being in this world?

Eric: I think maybe for some people. Definitely not for me. It's just kind of impossible, for me at least, to totally dedicate myself to making just for the sake of making.

Joel: Why is that impossible?

Eric: Well, I mean, got to make the paycheck and all that stuff. I think maybe if you had a big hoard of money, you could do whatever the hell you want, make all the art you want.

Joel: Would you want to? Because I know plenty of people who wouldn't if they had a big pile of money, they would go to Vegas and party and buy big houses and fast cars, and they wouldn't even think about making art. What about you?

Eric: Yeah, I mean, if I had enough money to not worry about living paycheck-to-paycheck or rent or whatever it is, yeah, I'd probably do art. I love making.

Joel: If you had that pile of money tomorrow, if I wrote you a $20 million check, what's the first thing you would make?

Eric: $20 million. That's probably enough to live.

Joel: I think you could spend, I think you'd have a pretty decent life on $20 million or $40 million or $50 or whatever it is. If I wrote you a check and you'd never had to worry about money for as long as you live?

Eric: I would make, I'd make a big ole’ house in the woods.

Joel: For who?

Eric: For me. And maybe, I don't know, whoever wants to live with me.

Joel: Why the woods?

Eric: Because I love the woods. I used to have a big area of woods basically in my backyard when I was a kid. So I would go out and build stick forts and that sort of thing. So I build basically a big stick fort.

Joel: What would it look like?

Eric: I think it would be kind of like a big Norse long house, like an A frame construction.

Joel: If I asked you to make something sacred to you, what would you make? Now, sacred can be religious if you're a religious person I don't know. But there's plenty of atheists who think their relationship is sacred or nature is sacred or the forest is sacred. So if I asked you to make something sacred to you, what would that be?

Eric: I would have to make a dining table.

Joel: Why? Why is that sacred?

Eric: The dining table is it's where you share a meal with with friends or family. And I think sharing a meal with other people is one of the most sacred and special human traditions that we've been doing for a pretty long time.

Joel: Did you grow up with family meals? Family dinners?

Eric: Yeah. Especially around, not like every night, of course, but family dinners around holidays, like Christmas dinner and that sort of thing were very special to me.

Joel: Very happy memories?

Eric: Yes.

Joel: What would your dining room table look like?

Eric: I think it would be nice and long and big. And I'd make it out of probably walnut or elm. I like darker woods.

Joel: What kind of design? More Japanese, minimalism, more ornate? Rounded? square? Hard edges? Soft edges?

Eric: It's a good question. I think I would go something, maybe arts and crafts. Simple. Maybe a little bit softer. You want it to be comfortable. Yeah.

Joel: If you only had three tools to use for woodworking for the rest of your life. Hardest question so far. I know this is the hard one. You got three tools for the rest of your life. What three tools are you going to pick?

Eric: Man three is like just short. Just short. Well, one of them is definitely going to have to be a table saw.

Joel: Table saw. Popular choice.

Eric: Super versatile. It has to be a measuring tape.

Joel: Okay.

Eric: That's probably the most versatile measuring tool. Maybe a chisel. Chisel, you can do a lot of stuff.

Joel: What sensual memory from the shop will stay with you the longest? A sight, a sound, a smell?

Eric: Ooh, maybe the sound of the wooden floorboards creaking. Or the sound of the thickness standard. It sort of sounds like a heart thumping in there.

Joel: That's interesting. What do the floorboards creaking sound like?

Eric: They kind of sound like, wow, I don't know what it reminds me of. Not many creaky floors in my life. That's kind of why it stuck out to me.

Joel: What do you think of Sandra and Beth?

Eric: I think they're absolutely fantastic.

Joel: What's so fantastic about them?

Eric: Just the wealth of knowledge they both have. And I think typically the woodworking and, I mean, I guess just trades in general, space, has traditionally been predominantly men. And I don't know why, but it's kind of refreshing to see the instructors not be men. Not that, all my woodworking teachers through middle school and the one I had in high school are men, and without them, I probably wouldn't even be here. But it's kind of awesome to see that sort of representation. I think Sandra is one of the best teachers I've had just throughout my time in schooling. And, I mean, Beth is the tool master. I've had some days with the thickness sander where it'll randomly stop, and I have no idea what to do or why it did that. So I'll go to Beth, and she figures it out in, like, 30 seconds. So now I think I know everything to do with the thickness sander and what to do if it randomly stops on me or whatever it might be.

Joel: My last question isn't actually a question. What have I missed? What would you like to remember? What would you like other people to know about you, about this class? Maybe you've been thinking about something, and I haven't asked the right question to get it out of you. Just an aspect of the last ten months that we haven't touched upon that you either think is really important or you just want to remember.

Eric: Oh, you got a pretty thorough line of questions. I don't think I have anything.

Joel: Nothing.?

Eric: Nothing.

Joel: Well, you did great.

Eric: Thank you.

Joel: The pain is over. Thank you, my friend.

Eric: Thank God.