Joel: All right, Kat, how you doing?

Katrina: Good.

Joel: Are you good? You nervous?

Katrina: A little bit.

Joel: You're going to be great. So tell me about your professional and educational experience and background before you joined the Fine Furniture Program.

Katrina: So before the fine furniture program, I was homeschooled. And other than that, I just did a lot of work experience in different types of fields. So I did farming. I worked as a stable hand for, like, three years at a breeding farm and then for a show farm.

Joel: Was this all horses?

Katrina: Yeah.

Joel: Okay.

Katrina: And then I've done landscaping, and I worked in retail for a little while, but then I was just trying to figure out what I wanted to do. So after I watched Forest Gump, I came to the realization I need to be more, I guess, fluid with my life. Not so, like, step to step.

Joel: You needed to more go with the flow?

Katrina: Yeah. So I was like, if there's an opportunity, I'm going to want to say yes more. So that's what I ended up doing, because I was like, okay, what can I do that's going to better my life? So then I was like, I'm going to move to the island. And then I got apprenticeship.

Joel: How long ago was this?

Katrina: This was three years ago. So I got offered a carpentry apprenticeship. And so that was my sign that I was like, I'm going to go. I'm going to do it. I finished my level 1 carpentry, but just through experience, I was learning about myself a little bit more and then realized that the things that I value and my morals are way more important than what people were saying and wanting of me and job in workplaces. So then I focused more on that. I was like, what do I need to do to stick to my morals while doing what I enjoy? And then so I decided to follow the quality part that I've been focusing on. So that's how I went from carpentry to fine furniture, because I really wanted to focus on the details.

Joel: What was it about the carpentry program that was unsatisfying?

Katrina: The program itself was good, but the field of work, it's very hard to find teachers that actually want to teach. It's hard to find teachers that care about the quality of their own work. And I really believe that the student is a product of the teacher. So what I was learning was not how I saw myself as a carpenter. I really wanted to do amazing work. I wanted to be proud of my work. I wanted to build these homes for people and know that they were safe in that home and everything. But that quality wasn't there from the teacher.

Joel: Interesting.

Katrina: There were a couple of teachers that were fantastic, but because they were so great, they ended up getting promoted, so they weren't able to be my teachers anymore.

Joel: So it sounds like you've spent a lot of your working life working with your hands. Has that always appealed to you, working with your hands as opposed to working in an office or more retail settings?

Katrina: Yeah, I think one of my biggest strengths for this reason is I'm really physically strong. So that has been something that's benefited me through all my jobs. So anything like physical, I found, like, I did the best at. Anything that's, like, communication-wise or just sitting. I struggle with.

Joel: Besides being strong, do you enjoy working with your hands? Because some people are strong and they don't like working with their hands, they still would prefer an office job.

Katrina: Yeah, I love working with my hands.

Joel: Why? What is it about working with your hands that you like so much?

Katrina: I think it's the final product of what you create. Like, it goes from your brain to obviously it goes from your brain, and then your hands are what create it. Whether it's for some people typing into a computer of their ideas and their marketing stuff, or for me, a lot of it was just being able to, for example, like, farm hand stuff. I liked it because I had an idea of how I could take care of these horses, but my hands were able to actually heal them and care for them.

Joel: So your hands can execute the plan that your brain comes up with?

Katrina: Yeah.

Joel: So why, when you enrolled in fine furniture, why did you choose wood as opposed to metal or clay? You were talking about how you wanted to create something and you wanted to make something that was more finished and more artistic. But you could be artistic in metal just as easily. Why wood as opposed to some other material?

Katrina: I chose wood because it was once its own life. And I feel like in this industry, it's not honored the way it should be.

Joel: Tell me more about that. Why do you mean it's not honored the way it should be?

Katrina: Well, so carpenters are usually called wood butchers because they just take wood, butcher it, and then throw structures or whatever up. But, like, fine furniture. You're reading the wood. The age of it is valued. And so being able to create something that once had a life and honoring it in that way and, like, enhance, like, showing its beauty and just in its story, I think that's really cool.

Joel: So I know you love animals, and you're talking now about honoring the trees and the life that the wood used to be. It seems like, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like you might be sort of a nurturing person and that that sort of life is really important to you. Like all life. Is that accurate?

Katrina: I mean, yeah.

Joel: Tell me I'm wrong. You know you better than I do. How is it accurate in a way, and how is it wrong in a way?

Katrina: Well, I think all life has value, but this could get, like, very…

Joel: All life has value, but what?

Katrina: I don't know if you'd want to post my answers.

Joel: I want to hear your answer.

Katrina: Okay. I think all life has value, but I think that some people give it too much, like, the wrong things value. Wrong type of life value, I guess.

Joel: What do you mean? Like, give me an example.

Katrina: It's like, okay, so, like, the so, you know those rehab centers for animals so you can have there's, like, wildlife centers and stuff, and they take in, like, injured birds and stuff.

Joel: Okay.

Katrina: And these birds have had injuries so bad that they can't fly anymore. In that way, I feel like, is that bird getting the quality of life it wants? Or is that life almost being wasted because it's not fulfilling the bird's purpose?

Joel: So life is important as long as it's able to do what it's supposed to do.

Katrina: Well, that's really broad, though, because then you'd be thinking about people. I believe everybody has a purpose.

Joel: Okay.

Katrina: But maybe that's right. Maybe. Are they fulfilling their purpose? Are they trying to better themselves to a point where they are able to fulfill their purpose?

Joel: What's your purpose?

Katrina: I think that's a never-ending question, isn't it? It’s something that everybody's searching for.

Joel: Have you come up with any answers yet?

Katrina: I feel like one of my purposes is to help people find themselves.

Joel: Oh, that's interesting. How do you do that?

Katrina: Well, it's making the person realize what they're worth, being able to make them see what they can't see.

Joel: Do you feel like you've done that before?

Katrina: Yeah.

Joel: That's wonderful. I think that's fantastic. I think that's really special. What kind of friendships if you've made friendships in fine furniture, have you made? What kind of relationships have you created during the last eight months while you've been here?

Katrina: Well, okay. I think everybody is more of an acquaintance because I haven't actually know very many people here. Like, I know people to a level, but I haven't really spent much time really getting to know people down to a personal level. But I think just from what I've seen, it's been amazing just to see people's progress.

Joel: What's your best experience in class been so far? And that can be a project or a reading assignment, or maybe you just had a really good day. Maybe you just nailed those hinges, and that was your best experience in class?

Katrina: Um, I think my best experience was building the stool.

Joel: Why? Because we were on the same team?

Katrina: Yeah. We were so organized, and everything just fell together perfectly because we were just… I think the organization was a huge part of it. But even just the glue-up, everything just went very smoothly. And I felt very confident doing it, too, because it was going so smooth. So I think that was my best build so far.

Joel: What's been your most challenging experience? And it doesn't have to be a build. It could have been a particular test or a particular assignment or a particular day.

Katrina: Most challenging so far has been. I think my biggest challenge has just been getting over myself.

Joel: What do you mean?

Katrina: Well, I came into the program with some experience already, so being able to be patient enough to share the tools with everybody, that's been very hard because there's, like, three of the same machines where 17 people are trying to use the same machine. So being patient and knowing that I don't have to go as fast as I want to be going or I don't need to be going, completing something every single day, because there's a lot of time that you're just spending days just prepping for something. And I was not okay with that for the longest time.

Joel: What part of the curriculum has affected you the most? Something you learned, something Sandra said, something you created. In five years, when you look back on fine furniture, on the fine furniture program, what's going to be the experience that has the most pronounced effect on you?

Katrina: I think it was the lessons on designing and creating.

Joel: Why is that the most profound for you?

Katrina: Because I feel like everybody has that part of creative side to them because it's just a human thing. Right. But being able to tap into that is hard if you don't know how. And having the lessons that Sandra gave us, they were so simple, but it made your brain start working in that way, right?

Joel: Yeah.

Katrina: So being able to see what going from someone who is nervous about even designing something to seeing what we've like, everybody has designed, that is pretty amazing.

Joel: What do form and function mean to you now that we had that whole experience and Sandra had us really think about and create objects based on those concepts? Has your idea of foreign and function changed at all? Is it something that you don't really think has a lot of meaning? Some people don't think that's a really important distinction.

Katrina: I think I understand it better now, but I'm still very stubborn with my belief of it because I understand understand the definition of function versus form.

Joel: What are you stubborn about?

Katrina: Well, okay, so my first bookend

Joel: I remember it had very beautiful Purple Heartwood in it.

Katrina: Yes. But that was very functional. But people only saw it as form because it was pretty. But the functional part of it was, instead of using finishes that would make it moisture resistant, I chose woods that were naturally moisture resistant to complete my project the way I wanted it to be. And yes, I was having fun with the colors and the types, but it was still very functional. And it was functional. It was heavy and solid, and it was everything that I wanted it to be.

Joel: I liked your bookend. It was one of my most favorite bookends. I really enjoyed it. Has this program changed how you feel about art or trade at all?

Katrina: I think it has helped me appreciate art more, and even just being able to look at something you don't like and being able to find things you enjoy about it or like about it, or even just acknowledging that it's different. So I think in that aspect, instead of, I'm very into the traditional type of furniture, but being open to the different types of styles and making myself open to the different type of styles, I think has opened my mind up to a little bit to more different types of art.

Joel: Have you discovered a new style that you particularly like that you didn't really pay much attention to before you took this program?

Katrina: I think I've been building a lot of more modern stuff, which I never thought I would do because I don't really enjoy the look of it. But sometimes those simple curves are just what you need to make it different. Or combining the modern to the traditional to make it something unique.

Joel: How do you define art? What does that word, that concept, mean to you? Like, if I gave you a piece of paper and I said, Write out for me your definition of art, what would you write?

Katrina: I think art is just creating something that is… something that brings I want to say something that brings joy to you, because art can be so well different to beach person, right? For example, like photography. There's many different types of photography. I've been learning about a lot about exposure and how editing really..Just photography in general is about, there's not really like a right or wrong way to do things. There's better ways to do things. But at the end of it, it's what the photographer wants to create, what their images in their head that they want to bring to reality. And so that is art.

Joel: So it sounds like you might agree and maybe if not, tell me. But it sounds like you might agree with William Morris and he defined art as the pleasure people take in their labor. When you work at something, if you experience pleasure by working at it, whether it's a table or a road or an airplane or a painting, the fact that you take pleasure in creating that thing, that's art. What do you think about that?

Katrina: Yeah, I think that's art.

Joel: How do you think art is affected by politics and economics? If it is, maybe you don't think it is.

Katrina: I think, I think it definitely is for some people. I think it actually silences a lot of people in some ways.

Joel: How so?

Katrina: Well, maybe they could something that someone wants to create but is worried that they're going to cause bad publicity or something because of it, or cause issues for it. But then you also have artists who that's what they do.

Joel: Stir shit?.

Katrina: The rebels. Yeah. That is also art too.

Joel: Do you think it's possible to be a fully realized artist in this political and economic environment? Do you think it's possible for somebody who just wants to create art for the sake of creating art, can they do that in 21st century Canada?

Katrina: Absolutely.

Joel: Why?

Katrina: I think now more than ever, people are actually raising their voices, and they're using their freedom of speech. So I feel like that is something that's going to be, of course that's something that's been going on forever. There are certain people that were doing that. For example, like Elvis or like, what are those, I can't remember what those people were. You know those guys with the masks? They're like anonymous or something. I can't remember what their name was, but they go out and do graffiti and stuff. But they just wear masks.

Joel: Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I don't know the name, but I know who you're talking about.

Katrina: Yeah. Forget where we're going with this.

Joel: If you can be a really complete artist in this world.

Katrina: I think you just have to have the bowls to do it.

Joel: Got to muster the courage to go do it?

Katrina: Yeah.

Joel: What is the first thing that you would make if you didn't have to worry about money and you didn't have to worry about environmental impact of the materials you're using? You had all the money in the world. And if you wanted to make something out of plutonium, you could.

Katrina: That’s a tough questions. I don't actually know specifically. I would like to find a way that people could receive like clean water or even just food or shelter that's sustainable. Because there's always, I've been finding more and more that I've been looking into stuff that it's nothing even like if they say organic or like.

Joel: Eco-friendly?

Katrina: A lot of the time there's always some hidden component and it's not, I don't know, I hate it. You can't trust anybody then.

Joel: So when I just asked you that question, you answered by saying you would design something useful and potentially life saving for other people. And you didn't tell me that you would make something for you. Why was the first thing that came to your mind helping other people and not making something just for you?

Katrina: Because I don't like material things.

Joel: Really?

Katrina: I don't like possessing material things.

Joel: Why not?

Katrina: Because there are certain things that have meaning, like some small possessions. I have a small basket of stuff that I have kept over the years because it has meaning.

Joel: What's in that basket?

Katrina: So I have a rock collection. My grandpa gave me this crystal and I still have it in that box. And then just like pictures and music.

Joel: So then if I asked you to make something sacred to you, what would you make? And by sacred it can be religious. If you're a religious person, I don't know if you are or not, but also if you're not a religious person, it could still be sacred. For some people their dog is sacred or the relationship with their grandfather might be sacred, or a teacup could be sacred. So if I asked you to make something sacred for you, what would it be?

Katrina: It could be anything?

Joel: Anything you want.

Katrina: I don't know how to answer that because I don't really want anything.

Joel: It could be a picture. It could be an image or a feeling.

Katrina: If I could just have something for me?

Joel: Just for you. That's very important.

Katrina: Just happiness.

Joel: Happiness? You'd make happiness? Do you feel like you're a happy person?

Katrina: Sometimes. I have my moments.

Joel: If you could only have three woodworking tools for the rest of your life, what three tools would you pick?

Katrina: Hand plane. Measuring tape. I'm going to ask you the question.

Joel: You got one more.

Katrina: I was going to ask you the question.

Joel: You want to negotiate? Yeah, whatever you want it to be.

Katrina: And a drill with bits.

Joel: Drill with bits. Why those three?

Katrina: Because you can create simple things with those simple tools. I guess you don't really need a measuring tape. You can just eyeball stuff. You get good at it.

Joel: What sensual memory of the fine furniture program will stay with you the longest? A sight, a smell, a sound, a taste maybe.

Katrina: The sound of the dust collector.

Joel: Why is that? Why will that one stay with you the longest?

Katrina: Just because it was the sound of ready to work.

Joel: What do you think of Sandra and Beth?

Katrina: They are fantastic. Sandra is probably one of the best teachers I've ever had.

Joel: Why? How so?

Katrina: She… I feel like she's one of the only teachers that actually wants to see success in their students. I don't know. She goes above and beyond all the time.

Joel: So my last question -

Katrine: Wait Beth!

Joel: That's right. I forgot about Beth. Tell me about Beth.

Katrina: Beth is awesome.

Joel: Yeah. Why is Beth awesome?

Katrina: She's just like, I don't know. She's always there if you need her, and she comes up with very helpful solutions.

Joel: So the last question is not really a question. It's more of an opportunity for you to add something that you think I missed. So is there anything that you would want to share with people about your experience in the program that we haven't talked about? Anything at all. Anything you want to comment on. Anything you just want to put down and remember and record of note about this experience. Our ten months in this program.

Katrina: I think just to be patient with yourself and not rush, because rushing ends up with a lot of accidents and mistakes, and to just take the ten months as an opportunity to grow, whether it's in your skills or, like, in yourself.

Joel: Great. Thank you, my friend. That wasn't so painful, was it?

Katrina: No.

Joel: You did a great job.